So let's go. Dr. Karen, How can we make financial services more inclusive?
Dr Karen If we really want to make financial services more inclusive, we need to recognise that it's not all about profit, that people are supported to do good, to make it more financially inclusive, to really pay proper attention on authenticity to inclusion.
Do you think financial services businesses see themselves as inclusive?
Dr Karen People want to say yes because it’s good PR and it looks good for their reports, but is it authentic? Question mark. There are lots of ethical principles out there - this is what you should do etc but moving to the how is more difficult. It’s taken me over a year to find a company that’s doing it properly.
Is tech helping inclusion or is it creating more barriers?
Dr Karen Technology is great but if it's just codifying what we've always done, why would you expect a different outcome? This is what I'm passionate about - looking at the social aspects that feed into exclusion and what we need to do to break the barriers. If we really want financial inclusion, we've got to tackle our own bias because we make judgements all the time and that's just codified into our data sets, which are then used for training and machine learning, which then gets aggregated up to AI and automated, and without human oversight, guess what, you're still going to get exclusion. So we need to look at the data, systems and processes and how we transform it to make sure that we've got a bit more of an equitable digital society for everyone.